Thursday, April 21, 2016

Slowrolled or Not So Fast

An interesting situation occurred last time I played $1/$2.  I was parked in seat 5 while my opponent was in seat 8.  Seats 9 and 10 were discussing strategy throughout the evening loud enough for most of us to hear.  I had won a few hands were my bets produced folds from my opponents before showdown.  Also, the few hands I lost I didn't have to show.  Apparently, it came to a point where seats 9 and 10 were curious if I was bluffing a lot or had the goods.  They would try to put me on a hand since I didn't show.  I let them guess without telling them my hands.

That brings us to the hand of interest.  $200 behind, I was dealt 10-10 in mid position and bet $12.  Seat 8, a middle aged Asian with $75 behind, called.  The two of us saw a flop of Q-3-5.  I bet $15 and he called.  Turn was Q and I put him all-in.  He called and the river was a K.

Here is where the situation gets interesting.  Seat 9 mutters something.  Since seat 8 called the turn, I am thinking there is a chance he has a Q.  I'm looking at him and expecting him to say that he has a Q.  Instead he says, "You need to show."  At this point I'm definitely certain he does not have a Q.  Since he called me, I turn over my 10-10 and at that point he flips over K-K.

Before this session, I don't remember the last time I raised my voice at a poker table.  As soon as I saw his hand, I laid into him.  "Why did you say I need to show?  Don't you realize you just slowrolled me?  What did you think I had?  What were you afraid of... quads?"  With a straight face he says, "Yes."  Now, I am really confused.  Is this guy really this clueless or is he just trying to tilt me.  So I kept talking to seat 8 and at this point seat 9 speaks up and says, "I told him to ask you to show because it's valuable info."  He mentions the hands I had bet and players in the hand had folded.  Seat 10 chimes in by saying he understands how I could interpret seat 8's actions as a slowroll.  But he also seems to agree with seat 9 that the value of seeing my hand was more important than etiquette.

So I ask you, was it a slowroll or do seats 8, 9, and 10 have a point?


  1. I don't think this was a slow roll. With no betting action on the river, you are supposed to show first. When you didn't show your cards, you were trying to gain an advantage. It is within your opponent's right to let you show your hand first, regardless of what he had. If he had a hand like 88 or 99, trying to catch you on a bluff, should you be able to see his hand first before showing your winner? Assuming he turned his hand over immediately after you, then there is no slow roll.

    Having said that, seat 9 was out of line to ask seat 8 to make you show. It is up to seat 8 to decide for himself, and not let seat 9 to use this opportunities to gain information out of you.

  2. My opinion FWIW is there was no slow roll. He's making you show since you were last to act. I sometimes do this as well, though I would not do it with the nuts like he did... If I'm up against a particularly tricky opponent like what is sounds like he thought you were, I'll wait to show in order, as the rules state. No slow roll; like he said, valuable information gained...

  3. I do think it was a slow roll, and a breach of etiquette, but a relatively small one. Yes, general etiguette is to turn your hand over if you've got the nuts/near nuts. It's certainly within his rights to ask that the cards be shown in turn, but a smallish breach to ask you to show first when he's got a montster.

    However, it's not in the same ballpark of having you show, and then looking...looking...sighing..."nice hand, uggg!", looking...and then showing a monster. That's a real clear cut slow roll.

    So, I'd side with it being a small breach of etiquette, but a relatively small one and not one that should provoke much anxiety, IMHO.


  4. Obviously it's a slow roll. In your shoes, however, I would be more upset at the guys in seats 9 and 10 and at the dealer for not enforcing the one player per hand rule.

  5. Its his choice to ask you show your hand. If he called you. Its not a slow roll. I get tired of this crap. Yes I have slow rolled people with the best hand. If you do not like being slowrolled than do not play poker. Deal with it.

    1. Slow rolling is a scummy thing to do. If you don’t like getting chastised for it, don't slow roll or stop playing poker. Deal with it.

  6. Nothing seems to get the juices really flowing at a table as when someone feels like they have been slowrolled. Hard to tell, not having been there.

    Personally, if I were him, I would have just flipped over my hand. This is $1/2 poker, not High Stakes Poker. If the other players are so hot on finding out what you are doing, they should be re-raising hands or taking things to showdown.

  7. Sorry, xdex, this was not a slow roll. He called you and is entitled to see your hand. Although actually, different rooms had different rules for the situation you describe. Because there was no action on the river, many rooms will say that the cards are revealed in order based on position. I believe in that case, the player in the earliest position (from the button) has to go first. It sounds like you were in middle position and he was in late position, so under either rule, you have to go first.

    Now, if he got the idea from other players, that's a bit out of line perhaps, but since it was presumably said after all the betting was done, it couldn't affect action is not a case of violating the "one player to a hand" rule.

    In the early days of my blog, I would often discuss hands where I showed my hand without waiting for the player who HAD to show first to actually show, and then he'd just muck when he saw he was beat. Poker Grump always would give me a hard time about that--deservedly so. The player is entitled to the information that would be revealed by showing the hand. And in fact, I still do that on occasion, and then get really mad at myself for doing it.

    I suppose if he had quad Queens there, it would be hard not to consider it a slow roll, but even then...he is entitled to see your hand by any poker room rule I'm familiar with.

    BTW...nice blog, my friend, keep at it. didn't ask....but I freaking hate golf.