Saturday, May 5, 2018

Reverse Fold

It's a great time of the year if you are a sports fan (which I am).  We have the NBA playoffs going on.  The Wizards are out as expected after they only managed to secure an 8th seed in the East.  The NHL playoffs are in full swing also.  The Capitals are in a tense battle versus the Penguins.  I don't know much about hockey but I do enjoy watching the playoffs.  The PGA Tour is in Charlotte at the Quail Hollow Club for the Wells Fargo Championship and Tiger is playing as we speak.  For you animal lovers, the Kentucky Derby horses will gallop in Louisville today.  The boxing fans will watch tonight as the unified middleweight champion, Gennady Golovkin, steps into the ring, albeit not against the opponent they wanted to see.

Not to forget, the baseball season is underway as well.  Last night I went to the Nationals game against the Phillies.  It was a home run extravaganza.  Five home runs were hit in total!  We had to endure a rain delay but it was worth it as the Nats went on to win 7-3.


I haven't played poker (cash games) in almost two months.  Life got in the way.  I wrote about my last session here but I omitted one small detail because I wanted to write a separate post about it later on.  Here is what happened:

I'm all-in on the turn with A-A and the board runs out Q-9-4-J♠-2.  I turn over my pocket rockets and my opponent slowly folds by pushing his cards across the betting line (this room does not utilize the betting line).  As he reaches for his chips to equal my all-in bet on the turn, the dealer or someone else at the table says to the guy that a diamond wins the pot and asks him if he is sure he doesn't have a diamond.  After he puts out his chips, he reaches out for his cards and flips them over.  Sure enough, he doesn't have a diamond and shows J-K.  I have photos of the whole shenanigans.


Here is the question: what if my opponent did have a diamond but didn't realize it?  He goes on and folds his cards since, in his mind, he didn't hit a J, K, or a 10 for a straight.  Then, after being encouraged to flip over his folded cards, realizes that he has a diamond.  The dealer didn't muck his cards, so was his hand dead?

I would have called the floor for sure but I wonder what would have been the ruling on this reverse fold.

6 comments:

  1. I have no idea what the ruling would be. My guess is that you would different ones depending on which particular floor answered the call. Also, different rooms had different procedures.

    By the way, the dealer wasn't doing his job to not say anything. One player to a hand is something that all poker rooms observe. Also, once the villain pushes them out, the dealer should grab them to kill them.

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    1. I think in the moment, the dealer was focusing on making sure that my opponent put out the chips to match my all-in bet. I agree that the dealer should have pulled in the cards first. I am not sure who exactly asked the guy if he had a diamond.

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  2. You would have lost the pot and I assume would have cursed out the 3rd party for not minding his own business.

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    1. Possible, scary to think a fold could be overturned especially with forward motion.

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  3. In Baltimore, the rule is that if the cards are moved forward but face down, it is a fold regardless the holdings. This happened to me a few weeks ago where I pushed all in on the river into a guy holding the turned nut straight; he was looking for a flush and didn’t realize his straight. He didn’t say anything on the river but pushed his cards in and then flipped them for whatever reason (he had been revealing his hands in prior non showdowns). Upon realizing his mistake, he tried to play if off but the floor ruled it a fold.

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    1. Very interesting, this is what I would have argued if the floor was called.

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